Episode 14
How the Words of Jesus Can Unite Us
Takeaways:
- The podcast emphasizes the significance of Jesus's words in fostering unity among believers, as division undermines the church's mission.
- Listeners are encouraged to reflect on the historical divisions within Christianity and understand the importance of returning to the core message of Jesus.
- Pastor Bob illustrates that the church's unity is essential for the authentic witness of the Gospel to the world, as highlighted in John 17:21.
- The discussion reveals the need for both truth and grace in the church, underscoring that Jesus's teachings should guide both liberal and conservative approaches.
- The episode stresses that the words of Jesus, rather than human interpretations, should be the foundation of Christian belief and practice.
- Listeners are reminded of the urgency to spread the message of salvation and unity as a response to the lostness of the world.
Links referenced in this episode:
wdjsbookproject2025.com
Transcript
Welcome to Freedom Through Faith and the Red Letter Crusade, where the words of Jesus take center stage.
Speaker A:Join us as we bring healing, unity and clarity to your walk with God by focusing on one thing.
Speaker A:What did Jesus say now?
Speaker A:Now let's join Pastor Robert Thibodeau for the Red Letter Crusade.
Speaker A:Because when it comes to understanding the entire Bible, his words matter.
Speaker B:Hello, everyone, everywhere.
Speaker B:Pastor Bob Thibodeau here.
Speaker B:Welcome to Freedom Through Faith.
Speaker B:Glory to God.
Speaker B:We're so blessed that you're joining us today.
Speaker B:It is a blessing every single time we get together around the word of God.
Speaker B:You never know when the Rapture will take place.
Speaker B:You never know when someone you love may not be here tomorrow.
Speaker B:You never know whether or not we'll be here tomorrow.
Speaker B:So every time we get together around the word of God, it is a blessing.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:Let's go to the Lord with a word of prayer.
Speaker B:We got something special to go over today.
Speaker B:Heavenly Father, in the name of Jesus, we thank you and praise you for your Word.
Speaker B:Your Word is first place in our life.
Speaker B:Your Word brings life to all who find it.
Speaker B:Your Word meets all our needs.
Speaker B:According to your riches in glory through and by Christ Jesus, your Word should be all that matters to us.
Speaker B:And Father, we thank you that the technology you made available for us to use to get your Word out into the earth is here, it's operating.
Speaker B:And that our prayer is that someone, somewhere this day would receive Jesus as their Savior because of your words.
Speaker B:And we give you all honor, all glory, all praise in all things, at all times and all circumstances for your Word in Jesus name, Amen and Amen.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:Ah, let's go over what I like calling our confession of faith.
Speaker B:I call it laying the solid foundation for faith, commonly referred to as the Apostles Creed.
Speaker B:But we're going to be talking about that today.
Speaker B:Just repeat this after me.
Speaker B:At least loud enough for your own two words to ears, to hear.
Speaker B:Because faith comes by hearing.
Speaker B:Hearing by the word of God.
Speaker B:I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead and buried.
Speaker B:He descended into hell.
Speaker B:But the third day he rose again from the dead.
Speaker B:He ascended up into heaven and is seated now at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty, from where he shall soon return to judge both the living and the dead.
Speaker B:I believe in the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:I believe the church is the body of Christ.
Speaker B:I believe in the communion of saints.
Speaker B:I believe in the forgiveness of sins.
Speaker B:I believe in the resurrection of the body.
Speaker B:And I believe in life everlasting in Jesus name.
Speaker B:Amen and amen.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:We have your Bibles.
Speaker B:Turn to the Book of John, John, chapter 17.
Speaker B:We're going to be talking today about something that's been on my heart all week.
Speaker B:At the time of this recording, we're one week away from Resurrection Sunday.
Speaker B:We are now in what they call the Holy Week.
Speaker B:All right, but that's not what I'm going to preach about today.
Speaker B:That's what I planned on preaching about today, but it's not how it worked out.
Speaker B:When we were putting together the notes, praise God, the Holy Spirit had something else he wanted me to share with you.
Speaker B:And, well, let me ask you something here.
Speaker B:It just might sting just a little bit.
Speaker B:But why is the body of Christ so divided?
Speaker B:I mean, we've got denominations, we've got traditions, theological camps, and sometimes even churches across the street that don't want to talk to each other.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:We've got groups that argue over who's right and who's wrong while a lost world is still waiting just to hear the good news, the gospel.
Speaker B:And I believe Jesus is grieved by that.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Because he didn't come to build denominations.
Speaker B:He came to build a kingdom.
Speaker B:He didn't pray for doctrinal arguments.
Speaker B:He prayed for unity.
Speaker B:He made it clear that our oneness is the key to reaching the world with his message of salvation.
Speaker B: John: Speaker B:That they all may be one, so the world may believe.
Speaker B:Right, let's turn over there.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:John, chapter 17, verse 21.
Speaker B:He's praying to the Father just before he goes to the cross.
Speaker B:He's praying for his disciples and us.
Speaker B:Through that.
Speaker B:He says that they all may be one, as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they may also be one in us.
Speaker B:And there's a colon.
Speaker B:Remember I said before, Grammatically, that colon means so that.
Speaker B:That they may be one in us.
Speaker B:So that the world may believe that.
Speaker B:That you have sent me.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:That's the purpose.
Speaker B:And today we're going to be looking at the history of the church.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:The history of the church as it relates to the red letter words of Jesus.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:Because, folks, this season, whether you call it Easter, resurrection, Sunday, whatever, even Passover, this is the perfect time to stop and reflect and come back to the one that unites all of us, which is the red letter words of Jesus.
Speaker B:Not what councils say, not what the traditions have added, just what did Jesus say?
Speaker B:Because if we can all agree on his words, maybe, just maybe, we can finally start walking together again and do what Jesus told us to do, which is to go into all the world and what, Preach the gospel.
Speaker B:So let's stop the divisions and start uniting to get the Word out into all the earth.
Speaker B:So first I want to talk about.
Speaker B:I mean, we're going to rewind here a thousand plus years.
Speaker B:Well, about a thousand years, I guess it is.
Speaker B:And that's when the Christian Church was still technically united.
Speaker B:But that unity, man, it was a fragile unity at best.
Speaker B:And this is.
Speaker B:Well, the east and the west had been growing apart for centuries by this time.
Speaker B:Differences in language, leadership style, worship practices, even how they understood the Trinity, it was slowly driving this wedge between east and West.
Speaker B: And at: Speaker B:It's what we could now call the Great Schism, the day when the Church officially broke into the Roman Catholic Church in the west and the Eastern Orthodox Church in the East.
Speaker B:Now, out of that, two big issues push this division over the edge.
Speaker B:Papal authority and something called.
Speaker B:My pronunciations may be odd, but Filique clause, right?
Speaker B:The Roman Church believed the Pope as the successor to Peter and that he had supreme authority over all Christians in the earth.
Speaker B:The Eastern Church didn't buy that.
Speaker B:They believed in what's called a conciliar model of leadership where all bishops were equal.
Speaker B:Now, the Bishop of Rome might be first among the equals, but not the boss of the global Church, right?
Speaker B:Then came what is known as the Filiqui Controversy, the original Nicene Creed that we just read, right?
Speaker B:They said, the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.
Speaker B:The Western Church said, well, it comes from the Son too.
Speaker B:And they couldn't do this.
Speaker B:They couldn't make that decision without having a worldwide council of bishops to come together and agree.
Speaker B:Well, that's what caused the division, because the east not only disagreed with that theology, they were offended by the process.
Speaker B:You can't rewrite a universal creed without calling for universal agreement is what they were saying.
Speaker B:And then came the final blow in this, the moment that sealed the split.
Speaker B: In July of: Speaker B:Now, what's a bull?
Speaker B:It's not this animal.
Speaker B:It's not a rant, it's not slang.
Speaker B:A bull back then was an Official church document, sealed with lead, used to declare judgments in the name of the Pope.
Speaker B:Today, a good example would be an executive order, like from the President.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:All of all the subordinates were expected to follow it.
Speaker B:Well, this particular bull excommunicated the Patriarch, Michael Cervilius, essentially cutting him off from the church and declaring him as a heretic.
Speaker B:Now, Cardinal Humbert placed it on the altar of the Haggis Sophia for maximum effect, then turn around, shook the dust off his feet and stormed out.
Speaker B:Well, here's the kicker.
Speaker B:Pope Leo IX had died just a few days before this took place.
Speaker B:So Humbert's authority to even issue the bull was basically questionable at best.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:But still, the damage had been done.
Speaker B:So what happened?
Speaker B:Patriarch Michael Cerilius wasn't going to let that stand, not in his church.
Speaker B:He gathered a synod, a group of leaders of the churches, and excommunicated Cardinal Humbert and his delegation.
Speaker B:Now, not the Pope himself, but the emissaries who had dared to declare war inside his own church.
Speaker B:That's who he excommunicated.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:And just like that, the split became official.
Speaker B:The body of Christ, meant to be one in unity, was now officially divided.
Speaker B:And it stayed that way for nearly a thousand years.
Speaker B:Now, here's what breaks my heart.
Speaker B:Both sides thought they were defending the truth, but in doing so, they walked away from love.
Speaker B:And that false spirit is still with us today, because Jesus never called us to win arguments.
Speaker B:He called us to walk in unity, that they all may be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you.
Speaker B: John: Speaker B: Matthew: Speaker B:Say, when the Spirit of truth comes, he'll guide you into all truth.
Speaker B: John: Speaker B:All this fell by the wayside.
Speaker B:The Spirit wasn't given to cause confusion, folks.
Speaker B:It was given to lead us into the truth.
Speaker B:And leadership in the Church was never meant to be a power play.
Speaker B:It was supposed to be servanthood in action.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Don't shut me down.
Speaker B:I'm preaching.
Speaker B:Good now, but we need to learn from this.
Speaker B:Let's return to the red letter words of Jesus.
Speaker B:Let his voice be the one that unites us again.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:So what's next up?
Speaker B: Well, after this, about: Speaker B:Whoo.
Speaker B:If you thought that schism was.
Speaker B:Was something, the Church fractured, the Western Church, at least fractured within itself.
Speaker B:And it wasn't just a crack.
Speaker B:This was basically an explosion.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B: tant reformation, launched in: Speaker B:He didn't try and start another denomination.
Speaker B:What he was trying to do was call for reform.
Speaker B:But what happened changed the world.
Speaker B:Let's set the stage for this so you understand why this happened.
Speaker B:At that time, the Roman Catholic Church had become spiritually bloated.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:Corruption had crept in.
Speaker B:Priests were selling indulgences, basically certificates they would give that promised people or their loved ones.
Speaker B:They would spend less time in purgatory for a price.
Speaker B:Church leadership was steeped in political power.
Speaker B:And Scripture was often hidden from the people literally, since it was kept in Latin, not in the language of the common man.
Speaker B:And they discouraged any family from owning their own Bible.
Speaker B:The pastor, the priest would be the one who read the Bible.
Speaker B:Martin Luther seen enough because he studied Scripture for himself.
Speaker B:He saw that salvation was by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
Speaker B:Not earned through good works, not purchased with money, not dispensed through church rituals.
Speaker B:And that led to the famous five solas of the Reformation.
Speaker B:And I'm not going to try and pronounce the German or Italian or Latin or whatever it was.
Speaker B:I'll just give you the English translation.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Scripture alone is our authority.
Speaker B:Justification by faith alone, salvation by grace alone.
Speaker B:Christ alone is Savior and Mediator, and all glory belongs to God alone.
Speaker B:But Luther wasn't alone for long because John Calvin, Erlich Zwillingi and others joined the Reformation wave, challenging not just indulgences, but but the entire authority structure of the Catholic Church itself.
Speaker B:They taught that the Church had wandered away from Jesus and was time to return to the word Amen.
Speaker B:Sounds like today.
Speaker B:Little bit, doesn't it?
Speaker B:Anyway, praise God.
Speaker B:The Catholic Church, for its part, they didn't take that lie down.
Speaker B:They responded with what's called the Council of Trent and reaffirmed the traditional doctrines and declaring many Reformation teachings as heretical.
Speaker B:Now, just like that, the Church in the west, already divided from the east, splintered again, this time in the two main camps, Roman Catholic and Protestant.
Speaker B:And Protestant is another word for protest.
Speaker B:Right, okay.
Speaker B:So while reform was desperately needed, once again the unity Jesus prayed for was shattered.
Speaker B:He said, I am the way, I'm the truth, I'm the life.
Speaker B:No one comes to the Father except through me.
Speaker B:John 14:6.
Speaker B:But they were missing that truth.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:Jesus didn't point to indulgences or hierarchy or traditions.
Speaker B:He pointed to Himself, he said, you search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life.
Speaker B:And it's they, the Scriptures themselves, that bear witness.
Speaker B:About me John 5.
Speaker B:39.
Speaker B:The Scriptures folks were never meant to be locked up behind stained glass doors or written in Latin.
Speaker B:They were meant to lead people to Jesus.
Speaker B:And the Reformation gave people access to that word.
Speaker B:Praise God for that.
Speaker B:But it also led to hundreds, hundreds of denominations, many of them dividing not over Jesus, but over interpretations of interpretations.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:So what's the lesson here?
Speaker B:We need truth and grace.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:We need Scripture.
Speaker B:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker B:But we also need to come back to the red Letter Foundation.
Speaker B:What did Jesus actually say?
Speaker B:Because where his words are central, only then and only then is unity possible.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Oh, praise God.
Speaker B:Now, you missed a good spot to shout Amen right there.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:That takes us to the next split.
Speaker B:King Henry VIII and the Church of England.
Speaker B: In: Speaker B:King Henry VIII split for a completely different reason.
Speaker B:Power, politics and personal, personal desire.
Speaker B: Again, the year is: Speaker B:The Protestant Reformation was spreading like wildfire across Europe.
Speaker B:But England, England was still firmly Catholic, at least officially.
Speaker B:And here's the background of that story.
Speaker B:King Henry VIII married Catherine of Aragon.
Speaker B:But after years of marriage, they had produced no male heir.
Speaker B:And Henry, he was obsessed with his legacy.
Speaker B:He wanted a son.
Speaker B:He also wanted to marry a younger woman named Anne Boleyn.
Speaker B:So what did he do?
Speaker B:He petitioned the Pope for an annulment, claiming the marriage to Catherine had never been valid in the first place.
Speaker B:But the Pope, under political pressure from Catherine's nephew, who is the emperor of Rome, Charles V, he refused.
Speaker B:That's when Henry did something drastic.
Speaker B: In: Speaker B:This wasn't about doctrine, folks.
Speaker B:It wasn't about indulgences or scripture.
Speaker B:It was about a king who wanted complete control.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:That's what it was about.
Speaker B:Henry dissolved monasteries, confiscated Catholic Church property and established the Church of England, now called the Anglican Church.
Speaker B:Initially, it just looked like another version of Catholicism.
Speaker B:Same sacrament, same clergy robe, same worship style.
Speaker B:The main difference, the Pope was out, the King was in.
Speaker B:That was it.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Over time, later Reformers within the Church of England, they pushed for theological changes that brought it closer to basically a Protestant Reformation.
Speaker B:But make no mistake, Henry's break wasn't spiritual.
Speaker B:It was just personal and was strategic in nature, giving him absolute power.
Speaker B:So he used religion to secure political power and personal desires.
Speaker B:And doing that, he planted the seeds for yet another major division in the body of Christ.
Speaker B:But we need to remember, folks, the red letter words of Jesus.
Speaker B:We need to remember this with this warning.
Speaker B: Jesus said in Luke: Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:See, Jesus didn't establish the church so it could be used to justify political ambitions.
Speaker B:He didn't say, follow your heart.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:What did he say?
Speaker B:Not your will, Father, not my will, but your will, Father, be done.
Speaker B: Luke: Speaker B:Seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness.
Speaker B:First Matthew 6:33.
Speaker B:When we use religion to try and justify our own will, instead of submitting to God's, we're no longer building his kingdom, folks, we're building our own.
Speaker B:And kingdoms built on self will, they will always fall.
Speaker B:So what's the takeaway here?
Speaker B:Even when church leaders and kings lose their way, the words of Jesus never change.
Speaker B:Hear me now.
Speaker B:The words of Jesus never change.
Speaker B:They're the same yesterday, today and forever.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:And when the church returns to his voice, not theirs, that's when true unity and true authority are restored.
Speaker B:And that takes us now to the time of helvenisms, armenians.
Speaker B:God's sovereignty versus human choice.
Speaker B: That's about the late: Speaker B:This is one of the most theologically intense debates in church history, and one that's still stirring up arguments today.
Speaker B:I know I've experienced it in all this turmoil.
Speaker B:It's the divide between the Calvinists and Arminians.
Speaker B:This wasn't about church buildings, it wasn't about political power.
Speaker B:It's about how salvation works at the core.
Speaker B: n Calvin Reformer in the late: Speaker B:He taught that God is absolutely 100% sovereign, which means nothing happens outside of his will, especially when it comes to salvation.
Speaker B:According to Calvin, before the foundation of the world, God chose who would be saved and nobody else can get in.
Speaker B:Period.
Speaker B:End of story.
Speaker B:Go home.
Speaker B:It doesn't matter who you are or whether you believe in Jesus your entire life.
Speaker B:If you're not predestined for heaven at the foundation of the world, you're not in.
Speaker B:That's just the way it is.
Speaker B:That belief is known as predestination.
Speaker B:Now, those who believe in predestination will argue that if that applies to you and you desire to go to heaven, it's because you were predestined.
Speaker B:Already to be able to make that choice.
Speaker B:It's like they're speaking a double negative here.
Speaker B:But we can also go to the opposite extreme too, because if we fast forward a few decades long comes a Dutch theologian named Jacobus Arminius.
Speaker B:He'd been trained in Calvinist thinking, but he wrestled with that idea that people had no role at all and responded to God's grace.
Speaker B:Arminius taught that God offers salvation to everyone, but each person must freely choose to accept it or reject it.
Speaker B:Now, Pastor Bob's mind, that goes more along what Jesus taught, demonstrated, and told his disciples to offer to those they witnessed to, doesn't it?
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:After Arminius died, his followers presented their case in a document called, and I'll try and pronounce this, the Ramana Struts Again.
Speaker B:My Italian may not be good, but the Calvinistic followers fired back at the Synod of Dort in sixth.
Speaker B:What a name, right?
Speaker B: Anyway,: Speaker B:1619.
Speaker B:And they outlined five core doctrines of Calvinism that many people remember today using the acronym tulip.
Speaker B:Total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and perseverance of the saints.
Speaker B:Okay, look, folks, both sides were trying to honor Scripture.
Speaker B:Calvinists wanted to uphold God's sovereignty over everything.
Speaker B:Armenians want to defend human responsibility in this.
Speaker B:But as the w. As the debate went on, something else crept in.
Speaker B:You guessed it.
Speaker B:Division.
Speaker B:Churches began labeling one another.
Speaker B:Lines were drawn in the sand.
Speaker B:Doctrines became fences.
Speaker B:And in some circles, people even began to treat those who disagreed as outsiders to the faith.
Speaker B:I've experienced that.
Speaker B:But that's not what Jesus wanted, is it?
Speaker B:Don't shout me down.
Speaker B:I'm preaching.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:We have to turn again to the answer, which is, what did Jesus say?
Speaker B: Jesus said in John: Speaker B:I chose you.
Speaker B:John 6:37, whoever comes to me, I will not cast out.
Speaker B:In John 3:16, our famous scripture.
Speaker B:For God so loved the world, he gave his only son that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Speaker B:So what does that mean for us?
Speaker B:Well, Jesus made it clear.
Speaker B:God initiates, but we respond.
Speaker B:And it's not either or.
Speaker B:It's basically both.
Speaker B:And all right.
Speaker B:And Pastor Bob Gramacular, God's grace draws us, but love always requires a choice.
Speaker B:Now, here's the bigger picture.
Speaker B:Instead of trying to cram God's ways into a theological box, maybe we should marvel at the mystery of it all instead.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:No one can come to me unless the Father who sent Me draws him.
Speaker B: , Matthew: Speaker B:Come to me all who labor and are heavy laden.
Speaker B:I will give you rest.
Speaker B:Jesus said that.
Speaker B:See what I mean?
Speaker B:Both statements are true.
Speaker B:God draws and Jesus says, come on in.
Speaker B:So instead of arguing about how can I say this, how he saves, maybe we should focus on who he's trying to reach.
Speaker B:Everyone who's lost.
Speaker B:Again, the red letter words of Jesus, they don't draw lines, they open doors.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:I know, I know.
Speaker B:I've stepped all over your theological, harmonutical, denominational toes right there.
Speaker B:Praise God for that.
Speaker B:You stick your toes out from under the table, you can expect Pastor Bob to step all over them.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:All in the name of Jesus, of course.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:Anyway, that takes us to our next historical event.
Speaker B:Yeah, we're still going evangelical versus mainline Protestants, revival versus reform.
Speaker B: and: Speaker B:The theological battles of the Reformation have been fought.
Speaker B:Denominations had taken root, and many churches have become structured.
Speaker B:The turg and, let's be honest, spiritually dry.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:But that's when God started stirring something new.
Speaker B:The first and second Great Awakenings came up and they swept across Europe and especially across America, calling believers back to repentance, back to personal salvation and the authority of the Scriptures.
Speaker B:This gave rise to what we now call the evangelical movement.
Speaker B:Preachers like George Whitfield, Jonathan Edwards, Charles Finney, they weren't interested in cold religion or cultural Christianity.
Speaker B:They preached with fire.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:And calling people to be born again, to leave sin behind, to embrace a living, vibrant relationship with Jesus Christ.
Speaker B:Hallelujah.
Speaker B:Evangelicals emphasize the infallibility of the Bible, the centrality of the cross, the urgency of personal conversion, and the Great Commission, which was what?
Speaker B:Go make disciples.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Meanwhile, many mainline Protestant denominations like the Methodists, the Presbyterians, the Lutherans, the Episcopalians, they were moving in a different direction entirely.
Speaker B:Influenced by the Enlightenment and modern teachings, they leaned into biblical, what's called biblical criticism, social reforms, culture, revelance.
Speaker B:What does that mean, Brother Bob?
Speaker B:Well, many mainline churches focused on addressing poverty, injustices and inequality, reinterpreting Scripture through the modern lens, opening doors wider for inclusion and equality and other social justice initiatives that we still see today.
Speaker B:Now, let's be honest, though.
Speaker B:Both sides were reacting to real needs.
Speaker B:Evangelicals saw a world that needed spiritual revival.
Speaker B:Mainliners saw a world that needed healing and justice.
Speaker B:But instead of Working together, they began accusing one another.
Speaker B:Evangelicals would claim, you're watering down the gospel.
Speaker B:Mainline churches would argue, you're ignoring the hurting.
Speaker B:And that divide grew deeper and deeper.
Speaker B:And we still see it today.
Speaker B:Again, let's go back to what Jesus said.
Speaker B: He said in John: Speaker B:You are the salt of the earth.
Speaker B:You're the light of the world.
Speaker B:Matthew 5, 13, 14, right in that area.
Speaker B: Matthew: Speaker B:Go therefore.
Speaker B:And what make disciples of all nations.
Speaker B:Jesus did not tell us to choose between revival or reform.
Speaker B:He did not separate personal transformation from social compassion.
Speaker B:He did it all.
Speaker B:He did it all.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:He healed the sick and called sinners to repent.
Speaker B:He comforted the outcast and confronted religious hypocrisy.
Speaker B:He preached the gospel and lived it out too.
Speaker B:And lived it out loud.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:So why are we still trying to change?
Speaker B:Choose between the two.
Speaker B:The truth is we need both.
Speaker B:We need both camps to wake up and come back to the red letter center.
Speaker B:Because the Word doesn't need another divided church.
Speaker B:It needs a unified witness.
Speaker B:Jesus said the world would know us not by our methods or our labels or our mission statements, but but by our love.
Speaker B:Maybe, just maybe, if we all went back to what Jesus actually said, we'd stop competing with each other and start co laboring for the kingdom.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:Well, in our historical run here, that brings us up to today, doesn't it?
Speaker B:Charismatic versus non charismatic or spirit filled versus spirit frightened, I guess.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Let's talk about one of the most passionate, sometimes controversial divides in the church today.
Speaker B:It's not about salvation and it's not about scripture.
Speaker B:It's about the Holy Spirit and what his role is right now.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:Welcome to the ongoing conversation between charismatics and non charismatics.
Speaker B:That's what's happening right now.
Speaker B:This division took off in the 20th century, though the tension had been simmering long before that.
Speaker B: hit full flame, literally in: Speaker B:A little small house on Azusa street in Los Angeles.
Speaker B:It's where a prayer meeting led by William J. Seymour turned into a spirit filled movement that swept the world.
Speaker B:People were speaking in tongues, being healed, prophesied, passionately worshiping Jesus.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:And you know, as I heard a story, I did a little check and found it was true that while the Azusa street revival was going on, the power of the Holy Spirit hit that place and literally the glory cloud was surrounding that house and people thought the house was on fire.
Speaker B:And people were inside yelling and screaming.
Speaker B:They called the fire department.
Speaker B:The fire department showed up, no house on fire, but there was a glory cloud there.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:I mean, that, you know, amen.
Speaker B:I mean, that's.
Speaker B:That's the Holy Spirit in action right there, right?
Speaker B:But just like that, modern Pentecostalism was born.
Speaker B:Charismatics and Pentecostals believe the gifts of the Spirit, what the Bible calls charismata, are still active today.
Speaker B:I. I do too, right?
Speaker B:Speaking in tongues, healing, prophecy, miracles, words of knowledge, words of wisdom.
Speaker B: and First Corinthians: Speaker B:But yet not everyone was on board.
Speaker B:Many traditional denominations, especially the Reformed and the Baptists, respond to what's called cessationism.
Speaker B:They believe those gifts ceased.
Speaker B:They stopped after the apostles died and the New Testament work was completed.
Speaker B:To them, the gifts were temporary, just used to validate the gospel in the early church and that they're no longer needed today.
Speaker B:I didn't read that anywhere in the Bible, did you?
Speaker B:So what happened?
Speaker B:Churches split again.
Speaker B:Entire denominations formed.
Speaker B:Worship styles became battlegrounds.
Speaker B:One side was called too emotional.
Speaker B:The other was called dead.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:But again, we have to ask our foundational question.
Speaker B:What did Jesus say in Acts, chapter one, verse eight?
Speaker B:You will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be my witnesses.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And John 3:8.
Speaker B:The wind blows where it wishes and you hear it sound.
Speaker B:So it is with everyone who's born of the Spirit.
Speaker B:And then again in John 14, 25, 26, somewhere, the helper, the Holy Spirit, will teach you all things and bring to remembrance all that I've said to you.
Speaker B:So let me say it here, very clear.
Speaker B:Now.
Speaker B:I want to be.
Speaker B:I don't want you to misunderstand me.
Speaker B:The Holy Spirit is not a doctrine to debate.
Speaker B:The Holy Spirit is a real person, the very presence of God dwelling in every believer, the third person of the Godhead.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Jesus didn't say you'll receive emotionalism, did he now?
Speaker B:He said you're going to receive power from on high.
Speaker B:Power to preach, power to live holy, power to witness in a fallen and dark world.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:So listen to me now.
Speaker B:I want to emphasize something here, okay?
Speaker B:Not every charismatic experience is biblical.
Speaker B:I'll just leave that hang there.
Speaker B:Not every quiet church is dead either.
Speaker B:I'll just let that one stay there too.
Speaker B:Because the real question is, are we letting the Holy Spirit lead us?
Speaker B:Are we trying to control Him.
Speaker B:Because the Spirit of God doesn't divide us, folks.
Speaker B:Pride is what divides us.
Speaker B:The Holy Spirit doesn't disrupt unity.
Speaker B:He fuels unity.
Speaker B:So whether you raise your hands or fold them, whether your services include tongues or traditional liturgy, the Spirit's role is the same.
Speaker B:To glorify Jesus and empower the church to carry out his mission.
Speaker B:The modern day church has one mission.
Speaker B:To build the church of believers for Christ.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:I like it.
Speaker B:I've preached this for years.
Speaker B:I like to an actual building.
Speaker B:Think about like this.
Speaker B:If we were put in charge of building an actual church, physical building, could you do it all yourself?
Speaker B:Could you do all the work?
Speaker B:The architectural design, the wiring, the site prep, the building, the framework, the electrical, all that, could you do it yourself?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:It takes many, many, many different types of people in all skill sets.
Speaker B:You have the site prep people, you have the concrete workers, the plumbers, the carpenters, the electricians, the roofers, the installers, drywall workers, window specialists, painters, landscapers, all them coming together to do what?
Speaker B:Build that building.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:So let me ask you, would you like to have a painter install your electrical circuits in the building, or a plumber handle the framing of the building, or a landscaper put up the drywall?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:You want to hire the right person for the right job?
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:So if you're in a church, that just doesn't seem right to you, you don't like the music style, you don't like the style of preaching, you don't really understand what they're talking about, or whatever the case may be, maybe, just maybe, you're a roofer in a plumber's church.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:You need to find yourself another church that speaks roofer language.
Speaker B:Then you'll feel right at home.
Speaker B:You'll understand everything that's being said.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:That was an aha moment for somebody right there.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:Hallelujah.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:I'll just let that stay right there.
Speaker B:So let's stop being afraid of the Holy Spirit.
Speaker B:Let's stop abusing his gifts like they are spiritual trophies.
Speaker B: e red letter promises in John: Speaker B:The spirit of truth will guide you into all the truth.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Because when he's leading us, we won't fight each other.
Speaker B:We'll ignite the world on fire.
Speaker B:Let's take this to the day and time we live in right now, which is liberal versus conservative theology.
Speaker B:That's the modern day situation.
Speaker B:There's one division that's right up in our faces Today is that one liberal theology versus conservative theology.
Speaker B:And this one just doesn't divide denominations.
Speaker B:It divides seminaries.
Speaker B:It divides small groups, even families, even pastors that are inside the same church.
Speaker B:This is where the church wrestles with the question, do we adjust our faith to fit the world or stay anchored to biblical truth, no matter the cost?
Speaker B:Now, let's define these terms clearly.
Speaker B:Now, liberal theology emerged in full force during the 19th and 20th centuries, influenced by science, psychology, modern philosophy, liberal scholars who began rethinking traditional doctrines.
Speaker B:Many questioned the miracles.
Speaker B:Some question the Virgin birth, even the resurrection itself and the exclusively of Christ.
Speaker B:I mean, really, really.
Speaker B:But unfortunately it's true.
Speaker B:They leaned into historical criticism, reinterpreting Scripture through a cultural lens and symbolic lens.
Speaker B:As a result, many liberal churches today emphasize inclusion and social justice and tolerance and moral flexibility, often aligning with the values of the surrounding culture in their neighborhoods.
Speaker B:You can interpret that whatever way you want.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Ouch.
Speaker B:Yep, I jumped all over them toes with that one.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:But on the other side, conservative theology holds tightly to the inerrancy and authority of Scriptures, the miraculous and literal elements of the Bible, the belief that salvation is only through Christ, that morality is defined by God's Word, not cultural consensus, and all of that is 100% true.
Speaker B:But here's the kicker.
Speaker B:Both sides claim to be doing what's right because liberals say we're loving people just like Jesus did.
Speaker B:We welcome everyone.
Speaker B:Conservatives say we're obeying Jesus and we're standing on the truth.
Speaker B:And that's it.
Speaker B:Here's where we get into trouble.
Speaker B:When either side stops listening to the red letter words of Jesus and just starts shaping God in their own image.
Speaker B:Folks, that's where both sides are 110% wrong.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:I said it and I mean it.
Speaker B:Look at it like this.
Speaker B:Jesus welcomed sinners, but he never left them in their sin.
Speaker B:He challenged the legalists, but he also upheld the authority of the law of God.
Speaker B:He did not compromise on either issue.
Speaker B:I pray you're getting this.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B: Jesus said in John: Speaker B:I know them, they follow me.
Speaker B: John: Speaker B: Matthew: Speaker B:Heaven and earth will pass away.
Speaker B:My words will never pass away.
Speaker B:Notice that last one.
Speaker B:My words.
Speaker B:Jesus speaking here.
Speaker B:My words.
Speaker B:The words Jesus said will never pass away.
Speaker B:Whose words?
Speaker B:His words.
Speaker B:Where do we find his words?
Speaker B:In the red letter words of Jesus himself.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Not in the words of your denominational leadership.
Speaker B:Not in the Words of your seminary professors, not in the words of the books you're reading or whoever you follow on social media.
Speaker B:Jesus words.
Speaker B:Where are the actual words of Jesus?
Speaker B:They're contained in the red letter words of the Bible.
Speaker B:I can't make it any plainer than that.
Speaker B:And the fact is, this is so simple, it takes more faith not to believe it.
Speaker B:Mistaken faith.
Speaker B:Faith in something other than the words Jesus spoke.
Speaker B:But that fact does not change the fact that Jesus said it and his words never pass away.
Speaker B:And this, his words will be what will judge us in the last days.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B: John: Speaker B:The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge already.
Speaker B:The word that I have spoken, that's what will judge him on the last day.
Speaker B:Those are the words that will judge us.
Speaker B:Don't shout me down.
Speaker B:I'm preaching.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:Hallelujah.
Speaker B:Jesus never said, adopt me to your culture.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:He said, follow me.
Speaker B:Even when it costs you.
Speaker B:Even if it costs you everything.
Speaker B:Follow me.
Speaker B:Who's right?
Speaker B:Who's right at this?
Speaker B:Well, look at it like this.
Speaker B:The danger of liberal theology is truth is optional.
Speaker B:The danger of conservative theology is this love is mechanical.
Speaker B:You just do it.
Speaker B:But the real power comes when both truth and love are combined.
Speaker B:Both views anchored in what Jesus actually said, not somebody else's interpretation of what Jesus said.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:So here's the challenge for us church.
Speaker B:We need to stop swinging between extremes.
Speaker B:Let's stop editing Jesus or weaponizing him.
Speaker B:Just let them read it.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Let people read us.
Speaker B:Because the church won't survive another generation of the.
Speaker B:It just won't.
Speaker B:It's barely surviving right now.
Speaker B:And you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker B:You heard me say this before, that.
Speaker B:You know, when I was growing up, almost every church parking lot probably has 75 to 90% capacity now.
Speaker B:75, 80% empty.
Speaker B:When I was growing up, even grocery stores didn't open till 12 noon so people could go to church now.
Speaker B:I mean, convenience stores, they were just closed, gas stations closed.
Speaker B:Now they're all open.
Speaker B:When I was growing up, you could not buy liquor, alcohol, beer, whatever you want to call it on Sundays.
Speaker B:Now, you walk into any convenience store at any time on Sunday and get what you need.
Speaker B:Culture has changed.
Speaker B:Not for the better.
Speaker B:That's how it was.
Speaker B:That's how it is now.
Speaker B:Who's right?
Speaker B:Oh, people.
Speaker B:But why should people who don't believe that way, why should they suffer?
Speaker B:If they need gas, they want to go somewhere.
Speaker B:Not all gas stations were closed, okay?
Speaker B:The ones out by the highway and all that.
Speaker B:They were open for the commuters and the truckers and all that.
Speaker B:But your local town, you know, at a minimum, it'd be closed to 12 noon because the owner and the operator be in church himself.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:So the point I'm trying to make is this.
Speaker B:Times have changed.
Speaker B:Not for the better, it's possible.
Speaker B:You're not going to change society right now and put it like that.
Speaker B:You are not going to change society.
Speaker B: and shut everything down till: Speaker B:It's just not going to happen.
Speaker B:You need to make a choice.
Speaker B:You need to make the choice that you know you're going to do.
Speaker B:Jesus first and then shopping second.
Speaker B:You know, I know.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:Lord, I don't want to go down that path.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Let me just say this.
Speaker B:If you put personal satisfaction first over spiritual satisfaction, being satisfied spiritually, you will lose every single time.
Speaker B:Every single time.
Speaker B:Because the devil will find a way to make sure that, you know, once you take that step in his direction, you know, what's Newton's third law of motion?
Speaker B:An object that stays at rest or object that is in motion will stay in motion unless an outside force is put on it.
Speaker B:Once the devil gets you taking a step in his direction, your momentum has started.
Speaker B:Now it takes even more force to stop that direction and get you go back the other way.
Speaker B:He gets you take two steps, your momentum is gaining three, four, five steps in his direction.
Speaker B:Man, it's like a rocket going to the moon.
Speaker B:Now this thing is just accelerating.
Speaker B:You might be able to slow it down.
Speaker B:You might be able to go out and do an elliptical orbit and come back.
Speaker B:But folks, the damage has been done.
Speaker B:That doesn't mean you're lost.
Speaker B:Doesn't mean you can't turn around and start serving Jesus again.
Speaker B:I'm saying it's harder to do.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:You know, you got a car going down the highway 70 miles an hour and up ahead the bridge is out.
Speaker B:You can lock them brakes up.
Speaker B:That's another force.
Speaker B:Gravity and friction applied to the brakes and the wheels on the pavement.
Speaker B:And you can bring that car to a stop.
Speaker B:But it takes a lot of effort.
Speaker B:It's so much easier if you just do it Jesus's way.
Speaker B:Even if you are going in the opposite direction, Jesus can turn you around.
Speaker B:How many times have you missed an exit?
Speaker B:You go up next, do a loop de loop, come right back around, come back around, and there you are, right?
Speaker B:You didn't stop.
Speaker B:It just was a little diversion to get you back on the right path again.
Speaker B:That's what the red letter words of Jesus does.
Speaker B:It'll get you turned around going the right way with as minimal effort on your part as possible.
Speaker B:Now, in today's society, we still thrive with a generation committed to just listening to the voice of Jesus.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:100%, yes.
Speaker B:What did Jesus say and what are we going to do about it?
Speaker B:I mean, we've just walked through.
Speaker B:Where are we at here?
Speaker B:An entirely.
Speaker B:Nearly 2,000 years of church division.
Speaker B:East versus West, Catholic versus Protestant, predestination versus free will, charismatic versus cautious, progressive versus traditional.
Speaker B:Each split had its reasons.
Speaker B:Something had to happen.
Speaker B:Some had to have.
Speaker B:Some.
Speaker B:Splits had to happen.
Speaker B:Some, maybe not.
Speaker B:But all of them have left behind something Jesus never wanted.
Speaker B:A fractured body.
Speaker B:Jesus did not die to start denominations.
Speaker B:He came to unite us in the truth and the power of the Gospel.
Speaker B:That's why what he prayed in John 17 is the mission of the church.
Speaker B:What Jesus prayed to the Father about before he went to the cross.
Speaker B:That they may be one, as we are one, so that the world may believe you have sent me.
Speaker B:Let that sink in.
Speaker B:Our unity is the evidence of his message and it needs to be our message.
Speaker B:No wonder the enemy works so hard and keeps on attacking it.
Speaker B:But here's the part that should stop us in our tracks.
Speaker B: John: Speaker B:The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge already.
Speaker B:The words that I have spoken, they will judge him.
Speaker B:On that last day, Jesus said we'll be judged.
Speaker B:Not by commentary, not by tradition, not by theology books, not by your professor, not by your priest, not by your pastor, not by your next door neighbor, but by his very words.
Speaker B:Not what people said about him, but what he actually said.
Speaker B:Brand.
Speaker B:That's why I'm so passionate about this book.
Speaker B:The what Did Jesus Say?
Speaker B:Book project.
Speaker B:It's just not another book.
Speaker B:It's not just another book.
Speaker B:This book contains there's words of Jesus.
Speaker B:There's no commentary, no opinion pieces.
Speaker B:It's just the red letter words of Jesus.
Speaker B:This is a powerful collection.
Speaker B:The red letter words of Jesus.
Speaker B:Straight from the gospels.
Speaker B:No fluff, no fillers, just Jesus.
Speaker B:Just him speaking.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:This book is powerful.
Speaker B:It's a time when the church is divided, confused.
Speaker B:The church and its parishioners are searching for answers.
Speaker B:Folks, it's time to go back to the source.
Speaker B:It's time to get the word out.
Speaker B:Literally.
Speaker B:Here's how you can help.
Speaker B:Get a copy of this Book.
Speaker B:What did Jesus say?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Share it with your friends, churches.
Speaker B:Share it with ministries who need to refocus on his words.
Speaker B:Share it with your pastor.
Speaker B:Tell, hey, this is just the red letter words of Jesus.
Speaker B:Pastor, you need to read this.
Speaker B:This is great.
Speaker B:Written by Reverend Terry Allen.
Speaker B:Terry A. Allen.
Speaker B:You can invite Reverend Christian to your podcast to share this message of.
Speaker B:Of unity and red letter truth.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:I need you to become a partner with us financially to help distribute this message worldwide, especially the churches in need.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:How?
Speaker B:I'm so glad you asked.
Speaker B:Praise God, folks.
Speaker B:If the church would just come back to what Jesus actually said, we wouldn't just believe better.
Speaker B:We'd love deeper, live louder, stand stronger, and do it together.
Speaker B:So let's do what he told us to do.
Speaker B:Let's be one, let's make disciples.
Speaker B:Let's get the word out.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Use the link down below in the show notes.
Speaker B:If it's not in the show notes, you'll be in the first comment section below the video.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We set up a fundraiser on Indiegogo.com that link will be right there.
Speaker B:You can receive your very own copies of this book, ebook, print format, even audio.
Speaker B:Praise God for helping us to raise the funds to take this message to the world.
Speaker B:Now, if you'd like information on.
Speaker B:On moving from being a donor to a partner, oh, man.
Speaker B:If we got a deal for you, especially in this day and time of this economic uncertainty.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B: Just go to wdjsbookproject: Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:Hallelujah.
Speaker B:We covered a lot of great information today, man.
Speaker B:I tell you, if this resonated with you and the Holy Spirit is leading you to become a partner with us to get this message out into the world, click the links down below in the show notes and get in touch.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Praise the Lord.
Speaker B:Like I said, next Sunday, Resurrection Sunday.
Speaker B:Hallelujah.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:Oh, I look forward to that sermon each and every week.
Speaker B:You're gonna love this one coming up.
Speaker B:It's gonna be completely different from what I've done before.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:I said.
Speaker B:This book has revolutionized my preaching.
Speaker B:You could probably tell that, right?
Speaker B:But we're gonna have a great time next week.
Speaker B:All right?
Speaker B:I'm not gonna hold you anymore.
Speaker B:That's all the time we have for today.
Speaker B:Till next time, this pastor.
Speaker B:Well, before I sign off, praise God.
Speaker B:Thank you, Holy Spirit, for reminding me of that.
Speaker B:Someone out there right now wants to Receive Jesus as their savior.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Praise God.
Speaker B:Let's pray.
Speaker B:If this is you, if you what what was spoken today resonated with your spirit and you want to receive Jesus as your savior, Just pray this short prayer with me right now.
Speaker B:Father, I lift up this person to me right now.
Speaker B:We're praying in agreement.
Speaker B:Just raise your hand up, point it towards the tv, the computer monitor, the radio or whatever, your phone, whatever you're raise your hand up and just say.
Speaker B:Father, in the name of Jesus, I come before your throne of grace and mercy this day thanking you for Jesus as my Savior.
Speaker B:Lord Jesus, I ask you to come into my heart, forgive me of my sins and created me this new man.
Speaker B:One that loves you, one that loves the Father, one that loves your words.
Speaker B:Hallelujah.
Speaker B:Help me Lord Jesus, to walk this path with you through the rest of my life, sharing what you have done for me right here, right now, this day.
Speaker B:The old me has passed away and a new me is now living on the hand other inside of me, created in your image and in the image of the Father.
Speaker B:Father, I thank you for your word.
Speaker B:Jesus, I thank you.
Speaker B:You are the Word made flesh.
Speaker B:And now you dwell in me.
Speaker B:Fill me with your holy spirit.
Speaker B:Lead, guide and direct each step of each and every day that I may demonstrate and share your love with the world.
Speaker B:And I pray all this in Jesus name.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:If you prayed that prayer, email me atbrother Bob tfm.org because we want to rejoice with you.
Speaker B:Amen again.
Speaker B: Go to wdjs book project: Speaker B:And we look forward to seeing on the other side.
Speaker B:Till next time, this Pastor Bob reminding you to be blessed.
Speaker B:All that you need.
Speaker A:Thank you for joining joining us for this session of the red Letter crusade.
Speaker A:Remember, in a world full of noise, only one voice still speaks with eternal truth.
Speaker A:That's the voice of Jesus through the red letter words in the Bible.
Speaker A:Please hit that like and subscribe button and share this episode with others until next time.
Speaker A:Remember, in a world where clarity is needed now more than ever, His Word words matter.
